I come here to have fun. To me having fun is important. I enjoy connecting with others, and seeing the world through the eyes of other people. Lately it seems hostility is increasing. Totally floored by what some people are saying, my friends PM me about bizarre assertions. It would be funny if they were not do militant about it.
Much of this friction comes from what I have to call a misunderstanding of a document. This document is a very old and popular guide of how to do things, build societies, write laws, heck, it even has a bread recipe. Many claim it brings them peace, joy, a sense of purpose and belonging, way cool. Even though most talk and believe in the peace, love, and joy section, things do get dark, and it is strongly asserted by a few readers that those who do not follow this document are the moral equal of rapists, murderers, and child molesters. They make no bones that any questioning of this document and they will be glad to remove your head from the rest of your body.
It starts with this happy couple running around a garden having a good time. Then they make the mistake of asking a question. Then the shit hits the fan and things go south from there. The rest of the document is filled with hate, war, disease, oppression, torture, suffering, more war, more disease, a bit more suffering, death, murder, and even cute little froggies become a means of suffering.There is eventually a teacher who teaches love, peace, comfort, and joy to man. But he also gets brutally tortured and killed, and his students get fed to lions, so then people run out kill in his name. In Jr. College the psychology department offered IQ tests, I hit 132, I am no genius, but I am reasonably intelligent. I read this and wonder what kind of guide to life is this? Why am I not to question it?
So an advocate of this document will ask what did I think. When I reply that is makes excellent Charlton Hesston movies will get a smile. Then when I am pinned down to my true feelings I reply that this is the most hate filled, sexist, bloody and generally twisted thing I ever read, nobody in good conscience can take this serious. The person acts as if I hit them with a baseball bat. They exclaim that is it not sexist, racist, or hate filled at all. So I show passage after passage clearly in black and white of hate, killing, torture, and that 51% of the population is too stupid and filthy to run their own lives, and should be treated only as baby machines and kitchen help.
I am told I am reading it wrong and twisting the words, that is not what it means at all. I am somehow at fault and lacking for not understanding that war and torture is not want is meant, even if that is what is written???????????
A guidebook to build a model plane gives the instructions clearly, and if you do not follow them word for word your airplane looks stupid.So if this life-guiding document does not mean what it says, why is it written with this stuff in it?Why am I stupid, wrong, categorized a kooky liberal, and told I am personally responsible for all the suffering in the country because I think this an immoral guide and cannot bring morality? It says to kill and torture for minor things, but yet those who do not follow this document word for word are on the same moral plain as rapists, murders, and child molesters?????
If you or I sat down and wrote a life-guiding book claiming it was non fiction and filled it with hate, sexism, drowning, torture, incest, killing, and war, they would figure we were on drugs, or completely wacko and need sent to a hospital for help. Yet this popular life-guiding document is freely handed out at hospitals and places where people ask for help & healing. Then you are helped and healed by reading this book, about death and suffering?
How can I be less moral picking and choosing inspiring concepts while others do it as well?Why can one group that ignores certain passages be upset at others who do the same? They are talking the talk of peace and joy, but walking the walk of hate and oppression. The document is working, but in a way many do not see or acknowledge.
"document" is an interesting term... I thought you were originally referring to the Constitution, and I was going to reply at first with "there's a book that people are fighting over the interpretations to as well"...
im an atheist but i kinda get the "deal" with the book you're referring to, reality as you and i know it was created by a sky wizard, the sky wizard created a moral code, rules in that moral code include don't be gay or your stoned (lev 20:13) and don't eat shrimp (lev 11:9-12) and of course don't kill don't steal etc. then the sky wizard appeared in human incarnate and the charachter in those chapters is cool he did some cool things, walked on water etc, he reversed the rule about shrimp (matthew 15) but theres some debate within christianity about the whole don't be gay thing, but then you look at the parts written by this paul and paul hates the gays its 1 corinthinans 6 v 9 where paul says gays arent going to heaven, but some christians say yeah but the sky wizard loves us all, etc etc
so, when you run into a large block of the sky wizard worshippers, they're going to keep proving you wrong on any verse you throw out,
The way I see that book is... we have realized through time, that some original "rules" were too barbaric and we've changed them bit by bit, as we built our own country.
The thing that angers me is when someone tells me I don't have any morals, if I'm not religious.
I get angered when they tell me scientific facts, like the speed of light is slowing down. If the speed of light is slowing down, how did their computer turn on this morning so they could tell me that fact -
If you or I sat down and wrote a life-guiding book claiming it was non fiction and filled it with hate, sexism, drowning, torture, incest, killing, and war, they would figure we were on drugs, or completely wacko and need sent to a hospital for help
Yes, if you wrote the book today, they would put you away. It goes for a lot of things. Rember the 1985 movies, Agnes of God? A nun is found with a baby, she claims that it was a divine conception. Anybody claiming to do what Mary did today would be tossed in a loony bin. I've always reckoned that if God was active ~0BC He would still be doing stuff today. Who says an Angel couldn't have been sent to speak to Joseph Smith. How come everybody is so ready to believe a 2000 year old book written often over a hundred years after the fact, but they won't believe a word from people who claim to have actually been there and done that?
I like reading Genesis. I know its written by a guy and not a diety, but I still like Genesis. Reading it from the perspective that its just a really good mythology makes for a much better read then trying to understand why would a "my creator" do all these awful things. So from the perspective its no different then Greek or Roman Mythology - the sky wizard reigned down fireballs cause he was angry. The sky wizard drowned everyone cause he was angry. That's an epic thing. Charleton Heston indeed.
How come everybody is so ready to believe a 2000 year old book written often over a hundred years after the fact, but they won't believe a word from people who claim to have actually been there and done that?
I've seen people mention "God himself wrote the book". And every time I read those words, I have a good laugh to myself.
The Bible has been changed from its oldest copies, and we're not even sure those oldest copies are the original.
One of the Gospels, Mark or Matthew - the last 8 verses in the KJV are not in the oldest existing copies. So that means someone after the fact wrote those in.
What else was written in by man and not by the original author?
What if all that anti-gay stuff was written in by a homophobe and not Moses?
To your post only, RIGHT ON! and I remember that song from Jr. High Choir. Love it. ANd by the way, you probably know this, but 130 is genius. 132 is still genius. Genius lol
For skeptics I quoted someone else. "It depends on whether you are using the WAIS scale where 100 is average, and above 130 = Genius, or the Stanford-Binet test scale. Also the WAIS test is supposedly more accurate because the Std. Deviation is much less on it." http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/96632
140 is the cut off I am pretty sure, my son is 143, he thinks faster than he talks his brain will be three though ahead of what he is trying to say. my 132 is high average or something, but many still think I am kinda a dumbass :)
No reson to be sorry, you did not any of this. I know you like to hammer "liberals" but remember you voting rights and right to own property was progress. ANd is less than 80 years old.
I will gladly forfiet them :-) if it means defeting liberalism :-P *wink* I am a firm hater in womens liberation! its caused more harm than good and more deaths that all our wars combined...
I am a firm hater in womens liberation! its caused more harm than good and more deaths that all our wars combined
Really?
That does surprize me..... You are not the quiet church mouse type, you will tell those you dislike to F-off, and go toe to toe with anyone. You are the CEO type and could kick serious corporate ass. I am sure you can bake some serious cookies too, and momminess is a career too. But I though feminism meant you had choices not mandates?
Well with any movement theres a fringe, I think the problem with these kinds of issues is that some in the media have portrayed the whole movement as if it has the agenda of the fringe.
Well with any movement theres a fringe, I think the problem with these kinds of issues is that some in the media have portrayed the whole movement as if it has the agenda of the fringe.
Theres a fringe within feminism, that has been demonized, but just because that fringe might be unnacceptable to the mainstream, doesn't mean the original agenda of feminism is bad.
yeah exactly, so you got rush limbaugh portrayed "femin-nazis" for 20 years, I wouldn't go so far as to say "brainwashing" but definately a victim of a propoganda war
its not brainwashing cause i think rush limbaugh is a voluntary thing
if i knew that me keeping my mouth shut and giving up propert would save billions of lives.. I would be in the front of the line to zip my lips and hand over my deeds!
I would rather be seen than heard than to have millions die every year
Pardon my Idaho educated ignorance... But who is dying for/because of feminisim? Why should you give up your property? It is yours, you have the right..? (no being a smart ass just wanting to understand)
Yeah, and the Roe v Wade decision is based on the right to privacy as outlined in the Griswold v Conneticut decision, the rights to voting and those kinds of things are not based on a right to privacy but on equal human rights, equal civil rights.
Then theres the arguement against gay marriage, that this would mean we have to accept beastiality and pedophilia, where everyone I know talking about gay marriage being legal has never said they wanted beastiality or pedophilia to be legal.
I do not see how giving up civil rights as a way to fight for yoru cause? and no I do not see how gays marrying means marrying sheep and stuff, that is just bizzare. The Planned Parent hood here is Boise had people taking pictures of car plates, then finding the name and address and harassing the hell out of them. Of course Planned Parenthood does family planning, condoms and stuff too. Including adption family willing to pay to help the mom.
I do not see how giving up civil rights as a way to fight for yoru cause? and no I do not see how gays marrying means marrying sheep and stuff, that is just bizzare. The Planned Parent hood here is Boise had people taking pictures of car plates, then finding the name and address and harassing the hell out of them. Of course Planned Parenthood does family planning, condoms and stuff too. Including adption family willing to pay to help the mom.
Theres legitimate and legal protest, protected by the first amendment, and some people go too far with it.
This is America, we don't all agree, most of us find time to sit on the internet and disagree with one another, its the first amendment right of folks to say they are pro life and want abortion banned.
I suppose its my right to sit here and say I want it legal for the first trimester but banned late term with the exceptions of health concerns etc.
I think it wrong for me to harrass the pro-life people, and think it vice versa.
I'm a Catholic, but I learn a lot from Buddhism, Hinduism, Confucianism, even Wiccan. And being raised by two scientists, I definitely do not take the bible literally. I'm probably a liberal—at least, compared to most Filipinos. I'm a feminist, yet a pro-lifer too. I have a lot of opinions and beliefs—but I am NEVER going to try to shove them down anybody else's throat! And I do not understand people who do. Sheesh…
The labels conservative and liberal just don't apply, so many people aren't for all the positions of the religious right or of the opposite end of the spectrum,
abortion is a good example of this, lot of pro-life atheists - not trying to impose their religion on anyone.
I used to think that the social issues were handled all the same by people, that if one was pro-life they were against gay marriage and against evolution, I had talked to too many stereotypical "fundies" so to speak, and they painted in words that everyone who felt different was wrong and disagreed with them on all those issues.
Then I met some people who were pro-life and were for the legalization of gay marriage, and against the Intelligent Design in the school,
Its clear that within the realm of "social issues" that there is really "social issues alpha" and "social issues bravo" and people have different positions within each of those two different "realms".
Mike the blog owner said it himself earlier yesterday, we have choices on these issues and these issues are really to be taken one at a time.
The labels conservative and liberal just don't apply, so many people aren't for all the positions of the religious right or of the opposite end of the spectrum,
I agree I take a cse by case basis. someone is a total ass because they act like a total ass, not because they are this or that. Just think how often you disagree with your spouse, but your house hold being healthy for all is the goal, so both of you make consessions. So many fight the wrong battle and lose the war and it does not have to be that way. Win-WIn is always a possibility.
The Original 
so, when you run into a large block of the sky wizard worshippers, they're going to keep proving you wrong on any verse you throw out, 
